Differences

This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.

Link to this comparison view

Both sides previous revision Previous revision
Next revision
Previous revision
mcmaster:start [2018/12/24 01:50]
mcmaster
mcmaster:start [2020/04/11 21:28] (current)
mcmaster [Commissioning]
Line 36: Line 36:
 I got a lot of requests to image stuff, so here's my official policy. I got a lot of requests to image stuff, so here's my official policy.
  
-In short, I focus on chips that are of interest ​to me.  ​I do lots of chips for others, but I give priority to people that are able to provide funds.+TLDR: for a typical chip, I suggest $25-200 donation ​to get it decapped and imaged for public use 
 +  * e-mail ​me (hobby/​public):​ JohnDMcMaster @@@ gmail.com 
 +  * e-mail me (consulting):​ john @@@ mcmaster.tech Note consulting rates are not the same as hobby rates 
 +  * [[https://​twitter.com/​johndmcmaster|DM me on Twitter]]
  
-In terms of consumablesequipment wear etceach simple ​chip costs me about $20 to decap/image (not counting huge equipment NRE).  As of 2014a professional shop charges around $100 for a simple, low resolution ​top metal dceap/image.  People give me upwards of $150 per simple chip if they are feeling generous and want to support ​other projects. ​ Simple => not implant ​ROM and preferably does not require ​delayering.  ​Not sure what shop would charge ​for delayering, but lets say upwards of $100 donation for delayering. ​ Chips from the 80's should be simple.+Please provide the following information for each chip: 
 +  * Can you provide any funding for the work? 
 +    * Commercial or personal interest? 
 +    * Decapping involves harsh chemicalsdirect expenseshigh NRE, and time so contributions are greatly appreciated 
 +  * Any potential legal issues associated with the chip
 +    * Ex: DRM, crypto 
 +    * Ex: a typical sound chip or microcontroller is not an issue 
 +  * Clearly identify the chips, especially if you are sending more than one 
 +    * Ex: specify "​344S0061-A"​ instead ​of"​SWIM"​since that's what's printed on it 
 +  * What deliverables are you looking ​for
 +    * I assume ​top metal image at 20x by default 
 +    * Let me know if you are looking for other services like ROM extraction or delayering 
 +  * Replaceability/​value 
 +    * Occasionally tings go wrongHow much would it cost to get a second one? 
 +  * Any previous knowledge? Maybe things people tried that didn't work? 
 +  * Do you have particular timeline in mind? 
 +    * Coordinate with me for best results 
 +  * By default I retain copyright and publish work CC BY on siliconpr0n.org
  
-Delayering is typically more risky to the chip and myself (toxic chemicals like hydrofluoric acid).  ​Similar issues with staining and lapping ​Lapping ​is currently extremely labor intensive and not very well refined (although ​can get a small area easily).+In short, I focus on chips that are of interest ​to me.  ​I do lots of chips for others, but I give priority to people that are able to provide fundsThis section ​is written with open source projects as the main audience, but note also offer services through my embedded security consulting service.
  
-This is hobby and I'​m ​not interested in operating as business.  ​I'd really like to focus on chips that I can (eventually) release on pr0n, ideally under CC licenses.+In terms of consumables,​ equipment wear etc, each simple chip costs me about $25 to decap/image (not counting huge equipment NRE). As of 2014, professional shop charges around $100 for a simple, low resolution top metal dceap/​image. ​ People give me upwards of $200 per simple chip if they are feeling generous ​and want to support other projects. ​ Simple => not implant ROM and preferably does not require delayering. ​ Not sure what shop would charge for delayering, but lets say generally 3x the cost of top metal imaging.  ​Chips from the 80's should be simple.
  
-In general I want to focus on R&D / labwork ​and not hand digitization.  ​I do have some limited semi-automatic digitization capabilities for planarized chips though that I'd like to develop ​(ex: works on PS1 chipset).+Delayering is typically more risky to the chip and myself (toxic chemicals like hydrofluoric acid). Similar issues with staining and lapping.  ​Lapping is currently extremely labor intensive and not very well refined ​(although I can get a small area easily).
  
-Most of this is targeted towards small chips up to the mid 90'​s. ​ If the die is obnoxiously large (ex: 486 CPU) it will be difficult for me to photograph and stitch the entire thing. ​ Similarly ​unfortunately do not have EM capabilities ​to image fine processes. ​ 180 nm is doable ​on my equipment but really pushing it (ex: XC2C32A).+prefer ​to focus on chips that I can (eventuallyrelease on siliconpr0n.org,​ ideally under CC licenses.
  
-Other: most of the work is in decapping, ​not actual imagingIf you happen to already ​have a bare die and would be satisfied with a quick / lower quality scan, feel free to send me a few dies. This may actually work out well for you since most of the money is in the microscope, not the decapping supplies.+In general I want to focus on R&D / labwork and not hand digitization I do have some limited semi-automatic digitization capabilities for planarized chips though that I'd like to develop (ex: works on PS1 chipset).
  
-Please provide the following information for each chip: +Most of this is targeted towards small chips up to the mid 90'​s. ​ If the die is obnoxiously large (ex: 486 CPU) it will be difficult ​for me to photograph ​and stitch ​the entire thing. ​ Similarly most of my equipment ​is targeted towards larger processes (say 180+nm), although I do have a small SEM if required. See [[https://​siliconpr0n.org/​map/​xilinx/​xc2c32a/​lap4-04_mit20x/​|XC2C32A]] for an example 180 nm chip taken with a relatively low power objective, noting in theory ​can get about 11x the detail (NA 0.42 => 1.4).
-  * Required: markings on the chip +
-    * Do not just send me the chip code name and expect me to know which one it corresponds to +
-    * Ex: specify "​344S0061-A"​ instead ​of"​SWIM"​ +
-  * Optional: alternate names +
-    * Ex: SWIM, Pentium 1 etc +
-    * These are helpful ​to add to wiki pages +
-  * Required: what you want +
-    * Full images of every layer so you can digitize it? +
-      * Do you need the whole die or just a part of it? +
-    * Top metal image for aesthetic purposes? +
-      * Are you hoping for high resolution that can see every wire or just an overview shot? +
-    * ROM dump? +
-      * Suggested method? +
-      * Image mask ROM only? +
-    * Erase fuses / laser magic? +
-  * Optional: datasheet ​is a plus, especially if I need to do something invasive +
-  * If applicable: any previous knowledge of things people tried that didn't work +
-  * Required: replaceability/​value +
-    * Sometimes I can do something more aggressive (faster, sometimes much faster) that might have higher chance of damage +
-    * If they are readily available you should send me several just in case +
-      * Especially if you want me to do invasive analysis ​(ex: delayer) +
-    * TODO: come up with a scale, but here are some rough figures +
-      * Very common: < $5 or can easily get for free +
-        * Ex: XC2C32A +
-      * Common: can get more if you shell out mild cash +
-        * Ex: playstation 1 CPU +
-      * Rare: You can probably get more but it might take a while or cost >$100 +
-        * Ex: playstation 4 CPU +
-      * Very rare: $1000 or un-replaceable +
-        * Ex: CSG 4510 R3 (the C65 CPU) +
-  * Any other relevant information +
-  * Can you provide any funding ​for the work? +
-    * Commercial or personal interest? +
-      * I'm not opposed ​to commercial interest so long as the die images remain free here +
-    * Funded projects are given priority +
-    * I am willing to do a lot of stuff for free, but it does involve harsh chemicals, costs me money, ​and time so anything is appreciated +
-  * Any legal issues associated with the chip? +
-    * Does release need to get restricted?​ +
-      * DRM?  Crypto? +
-    * Ex: a sound chip is no issue +
-  * Do you have a particular timeline in mind? +
-    * Between work and other requests don't be surprised ​if it takes me several months to get to it even if its only an hour of work +
-    * Coordinate ​with me for best results +
-    * usually have the most time late Dec / early Jan +
-  * By default I retain copyright and publish work CC BY on sipr0n +
-    * If you need exclusive copyright, want to be included in CC license, etc make an explicit agreement with me+
  
-Still reading ​and interested? ​ Send me an e-mail: JohnDMcMaster @@@ gmail.com+Other: most of the work is in decapping, not actual imaging. If you happen to already have a bare, clean die and would be satisfied with a quick / lower quality scan, feel free to send me a few dies. This also can work out well since most of the NRE cost is in the microscope, not the decapping supplies.
  
  
 
mcmaster/start.1545634219.txt.gz · Last modified: 2018/12/24 01:50 by mcmaster
 
Except where otherwise noted, content on this wiki is licensed under the following license: CC Attribution 4.0 International
Recent changes RSS feed Donate Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0 Valid CSS Driven by DokuWiki